World Hustle Dance Championships 2008

by Angela Risser

5 comments

1 Derrick Allen { 08.10.08 at 11:30 pm }

Since David was gracious enough to mention my name on a post on one of his newsgroups, as it relates to his hustle workshop at the WHC, there are a few points of clarification that I think need mentioning as well as a few things that David neglected to mention that I stated from the work shop he held with Diane.

1. I refuted his statement that grapevines where not around in the late 80′ early 90’s. I mentioned that grapevines were being done back in the seventies because I was the one who popularized the traveling as early 1976 and did so to music played in the clubs at the time which were WELL over 130 bpm. Anyone dancing back in the day will tell you records like “Turn the beat around”, “Disco Inferno”, “Romeo and Juliet”, “Haven’t stop dancing yet” (Which is what I won the Playboy International with) etc. were rarely played in the clubs at their recorded bpm speeds as published in Billboard magazine. (Incidentlly - I traveled and performed Hustle in California, Pittsbrug, Kansas City and numerous other cities during this time and all over the Carribean - NOT just NY). Typically these as well as most songs played in clubs where sped up considerably by as much as 10-15%. (making them average way over 130 bpm).

2. While I did state that there is a difference in counting &123 vs 12&3 think I should have made myself clearer on the point that the difference is technical in nature. That is, the verbal “counting” rythm is different - but from a practical stand point the execution of your step - your foot work - really doesn’t change because your body will naturally seek to find the rythm in the music (for those of us that have a sense of timing) and end up doing a 1/2 beat (quick-quick or &1 or &3) followed by 2 steps (each step corresponding to 1 whole beat in the music). If you look at what David is trying to promote as something “different” you’ll see that his &3 is nothing more than a quick-quick followed by 2 whole beats in the music(1,2) hence his count 12&3 or &3, 1,2. Anyway you want to say it, the bottom line is when you are executing his repetitive count your feet are actually doing quick-quick, step, step. Now what happens when your body executes the tradititional hustle count of &1, 2,3? Let’s see, the “traditional” hustle count is….well….a quick-quick followed by 2 whole beats in the music 2, 3 or step step. Hmmmmm…..

What people need to understand is that the “and” count in dance - is a verbal representation of a half beat in the music typically matching up to a quick change of weight with your feet. As I mentioned in the workshop - a quick-quick, &1, ball change, ah-1, &3, bang-bang, boom-boom, da-duh or whatever else you want to call it - are diffferent ways of saying the same thing - a quick change of weight that is executed between 2 whole beats in the music. To furthur illustrate the point, when David was dancing with Diane and counting his 12&3 - I told a group standing next to me to watch his feet and began to count the traditional “&123″… in less than one bar of music (a full 8 beats) our rythms were matching exactly the the same - except when I said &1 David was saying &3 - when I said “2″ David was saying “1″ and when I said “3″ David was saying “2″ (which actually buts him off phrase with the music but thats a different discussion) - They all started to chuckle because they realized he wasn’t doing anything “different” in terms of his execution only in the way he was saying it.

3. David negelected to mention that I also made the point that ones ability to transfer your weight at any tempo is a matter of skill and conditioning. In actuality, it takes more skill to dance at a slower tempo of music because it requires a greater control of your body movement and transfer of weight. As I mentioned in the workshop - the Websters Dictionary’s definiton of dancing is “the rythmic movement of feet to music”. So ones ability to dance at faster tempos 125, 130, 140 etc - is just a matter of conditioning. I will be the first to admit that at the age of 50 I cannot do the same things physically that I did when I was 19 and 20. I have no problem saying that my feet just don’t move quite as fast they did back in the day. (Especially after a 25-30 year layoff) - but I can assure you that I can still cut the rug at over 135bpm doing all the moves that I do now and can do so with anyone who has the skill level and conditioning to dance at that tempo without having to “adapt” any of my so-called NY moves. (I’ll be really, really, really tired - but like I said its just matter of conditioning).

4. I find that most “Pros” who want the music accelerated, do so because it hides their foot work as they can hold the “&1″, sorry…forgive me, I mean their “quick-quick” and just keep on beat. (yes there is a difference from being on beat and on rythm - you can be “on beat” but “off rythm”). They really can’t execute the changes of weight neccessary to have a true fluidity of movement and the faster songs allow them to hide that fact. Actually I believe all Pro Hustle just dance events should be modified to have a slow song at no FASTER than say 95-100bpm and a fast song say at no SLOWER than 125-130bpm. I think this would really seperate the real Pros from what we New Yorker’s like to call “wan-a-bees”. I feel that a true “Pro” will maintain the syncopation (the &1, quick-quick, ball change, &3??? , whatever) at pretty much any rate, but just like all dances there is an optimal point of speed where you can truly see the beauty and execution of the step, fluidity of movement, connection, lead/follow skills and the ability to maintain timing and rythm. I believe Eric Novoa made a similar point in a earlier post.

5. I think people confuse “style” with “timing/rhythm”. There is really only one rhythm with the Hustle and it’s the “&1,2,3 &1,2,3″, oops - sorry let me keep it simple - “quick-quick, step, step, quick-quick, step, step”. To try to change that basic count/rhythm is to totally change the character of the dance. The first thing we all need to do is to agree on that one basic premise. ( I’m not saying that on certain moves one can’t hold counts in order to “play” with the music, that is interpretation). I have danced with people from all over the country - and have enjoyed dancing with all regions of the country, north, south, east and west - except when they were taught by a “professional” some other way of counting this dance. The Hustle is not swing and the swing is not Hustle nor is it Salsa or Cha-Cha (although it is more closely related to Salsa as half a salsa basic is equivilant to a hustle basic). Just because I can do Hustle timing to a West Coast song - doesn’t mean I’m doing West Coast, does it? Of course not. West Coast is an awesome dance that has a certain look character and feel to it - all its own. Even though I can execute my hustle moves to a West Coast song the look and feel of the dance won’t be there.
The same applies to the Hustle. It is no different than other touch dances in that it has its own character, look and rhythm. But it is unique from ALL the other dances in that it is the only dance that can be done to virtually ALL tempos of “Pop” music (given your level of conditioning). Once we try to change that, we then have a totally different dance. To me, so called Sling-Hustle does not qualify as a “new version” since the timing is exactly what we are and have been doing in the hustle for decades - its just being counted in a way that makes sense only to David.

Whether someone does more turns, dances in closed position, travels more or less, or holds counts, is a matter of interpretation and styling. The art of the dance is how well one can adapt to these various styles while leading or following. These things shouldn’t matter as long as its done within the timing and rhythm of the basic count of “quick-quick, step, step (and-1,2,3). Notice I said “basic count”. Again, just like in any touch dance there are advanced steps that are done in 4 and 5 counts and more - but they are all built around the core basic rythm of “quick-quick, step, step”. (&1,2,3)

6. Just because someone can move to a song playing at 140 bpm does not mean they are dancing. The ability to “dance” with someone entails many other factors. When so-called “Pros” are “teaching” - here are some questions you should consider - do they really take their responsiblity to promote the “art” of dance seriously? Are they taking time to teach people how to move their bodies? To move from their core? Proper lead / follow technique? Isn’t that what we we are hired to do? After all, isn’t touch dancing about 2 people moving as one on the floor? Isn’t there connection important? Isn’t that the art of the dance? No matter how fast or slow they happen to be dancing. So I don’t get this old vs new, east coast vs west coast, everyone vs NY thing. I think is counter productive, petty, detracts from the dance, is divisive and turns off potential new entrants to this dance.

The fact of the matter is - the Hustle is going to survive and its not because it’s a “NY” thing. NY teaching tends to dominate because this is where the dance originated and where we still have many of the original trail blazers or where most of the trail blazers are from. We simply understand the dance better than most. The “Evolution” that needs to take place (and this is being done as we speak) is a set of standards that defines the count, rythm and steps needed to execute the various patterns at the variuos levels correctly. Just like Foxtrot, Cha-cha, Waltz, Lindy, etc. This will help in taking the dance to the next level of being recognized as a modern competitive ballroom dance form. Think about it for a second - In Foxtrot or Cha-cha or Waltz for instance - someone from China who doesn’t speak a word of English but has been trained, can dance with someone from Mississippi who has been trained in the same dance and they won’t have any problem enjoying their dance with each other. I believe the same holds true for WCS dancers from various parts of the country. Why should the hustle be any different?

Lastly - I was priviledged to be asked to be the Dance instructor at the NYS High School Theater Arts conference earlier this year. There were over 600 high school theather art students at this convention from all over the state. I’m proud to say that my Hustle workshops were voted the most popular workshops and averaged over 100 kids per workshop (They had to actually move us to larger floor space to accomodate the demand). Not one attendee from the work shop mentioned or gave a hoot about the tempo of the music by which I was teaching at. They did mentioned that they loved the music I played for them which ranged from R Kelly to Justin Timberlake to Beyonce. Music they could relate to. - I think that has more to do with attracting fresh youthful talent than trying to demostrate that I could dance like I was on “crack”. (Oh, did I mention they loved Barry White’s “Let the music play”)! The same thing occured last year in Puerto Rico where one of the goals was to introduce young salseros/salseras to the Hustle. The overwhelming concenus from this group - “Wow - that’s a really cool dance!” - I know that Billy Fajardo has had similar experiences in Canada, where they were lined-up outside the door - almost all young in their late teens and 20s - hundreds of them to learn the Hustle. In my opinion, our main inability for us to attract the youth is simply because there really aren’t any dance venues like there was for me back in the 70’s and 80’s. That is due more to economics than anything else. Less floor space meant more drinking space, “Cha-Ching” more dollars for the clubs. Where we had a different club to go dancing at every night of the week - and dozens to choose from on the weekend - we have less than a handfull now and they are only really open on the weekends. So no place for young people to strut there stuff. No place to develop a constant pool of new dancers. But with the resurgence of touch dance on TV and in general I believe we can and will oercome this.

Sorry for the long post but I’m just tried of all the back and forward on what I believe should be a non-issue. Ther is no Hustle speed problem. I mean no disrespect to David Flynn I think there is some merit to the overall message that the music doesn’t have to be wedded to just slow hustle songs. But wheather it’s slow or fast - the basic count is stll the basic count and the step is still the step. It’s not NY, or Philly or California - it’s just simply the Hustle and its a great dance that I love.

Keep Dancing

Derrick Allen

2 Derrick Allen { 08.14.08 at 2:15 am }

Nice to hear that you agree with me Dave “on an awful lot” of what I had to say - but I really don’t know where? If you did you couldn’t possibly make some of the statements that you make with the certainty that you make them.

And I while I don’t “read music” – I do know how to count music and by all the accounts of my peers in the dance community including WCS and Ballroom as well as the Hustle community as a whole, I believe most people would say I have a pretty good sense of body rhythm and timing.

You still seem not able to comprehend the point that while there is a technical difference in the “count” - the practical application is that there is no real difference in the foot work - no matter how you want to try and dress it up. No matter how you try to slice it, dice and mix it up, the fact of the matter is, you have a “quick-quick” (&something) followed by 2 steps . You are executing 4 shifts or changes of weight within 3 beats of the music. No matter how fast or slow the tempo. This is why I say you are peddling something as “NEW” when its not. As a matter of fact, I can remember guys talking about how what they were doing was “different” back in the day, (1977-1980’s). When in reality, they just couldn’t do the dance and keep the timing at the speeds of 128bpm+ that we were doing back then. They were just doing some type of sloppy foot work, standing there twirling the girl because they couldn’t do the step. Let me repeat I AM DOING THE SAME FOOTWORK AND TIMNG NOW AS I DID BACK THEN.

For the record my background in dance DOES NOT COME FROM TOUCH DANCING. It comes from my sister, who is a graduate of the famed NYC HS of the Performing Arts. She was a background dancer in the movie “Fame” and received a scholarship in dance to SUNY Purchase. You see, in order for me to do sports I had to take my sister to dance class 2x a week and all day on Saturday and then bring her home. Just so happens her dance teacher for the 5-6 years that I had to do this was the lead dancer for the world famous Alvin Ailey Dance Troupe. Her name was Agnes and she actually partnered and performed with Alvin Ailey himself (one of the few times he ever did that). It was through watching my sister Pam and her class being coached for all those hours that I learned dance theory, body positioning, lines, routine structure, and how to count music. When I moved from strictly social dancing to competing in 1978 -1980, I applied the general principles of dance and movement to my Hustle.

So no, I don’t know how to count in B clef or C minor – But I do know that in the pop music world that we dance to, we count in 8 beats (4/4 time) and within every 3 beats of the music there is a shift of weight that occurs 4 times when you are doing the hustle…period. You have not addressed that issue except by saying there is a “subtle” difference.

David said:
“The NY’ers counting &123 to my step has been done before – I might add. There is indeed a subtle difference in what we are implementing, and it manifests on the &1 NY stylers use on their step. They “wait” for the girl to style where as Sling people never do.”

I believe I’m much more qualified to discuss the mechanics of this step than you. Sorry, but I don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to a “wait”. If the step is being executed correctly the shifts in weight between the dancers are occurring at the same time on the opposite foot from their partner. Of course, as with any dance, the faster the music, the smaller the steps one has to take. You know there is a saying “Real dancers count”. Sorry, but there is no real difference in the execution of the weight changes – therefore no difference in step.

David Wrote:
When you look at the Pro Jack and Jill at 126 BPM Sat night, and the warm up we did for Diane/My workshop at 127 BPM - it was clear that despite the passionate defense people throw up for NY style - only 1/3 of the pros (Sat) and none of the students (Sun) could manage the NY style at 126 - 127 BPM. Folks, that’s the real problem. Theory is great, but people can’t seem to do what NY styled folks are saying in these debates. Club speed is WAY too fast for NY styled beginners and most Pros. Also - after 10 years with NY style as the competitive standard, it’s clear that no one under age 50 is in our ranks today. Hustle is the ONLY dance in America with that problem.
Your basic premise is way off base. Only in your world no one under 50 wants to do the dance. Your world must not include Florida, California, Kansas, Texas, Chicago, Canada, Spain, and Puerto Rico just to mention a few. All of which and have shown a keen uptick in their interest in the Hustle using the traditional count. . If I were to use your rational…why stop at 128 –or 132bpm. Why don’t we all just dance in place at 150, no 160…better yet why not180bpm – then we get even younger dancers!

NY style back then had some subtle differences with how we do it today. How do we know? Pros today “struggle” at 126 BPM when doing NY style (as seen in the Pro Jack and Jill Sat. night).
Only in your eyes did the other pros have a “problem” dancing at that speed. Chris Bates and Silvana were kick ass. Silvana danced with 2 different partners, back to back, with no problem taking 2nd and 3rd. I won the pro Jack and Jill and had no problem executing and dancing any moves at all. Incidentlly, of the 6 finalist only one would be considered to be a WCS dancer…and he was dancing with Silvanna. Are you suggesting that we were all struggling during the dance?

You make statements like you were around and in the mixed back in the 70’s and eighties. Sorry, but I don’t remember you at any major competition (or minor) competition from back then. So trying to position yourself as some Hustle history major is, to me, a joke. I was there, I lived it, experienced it, understand it and not to brag…I won it. I will repeat again I AM DOING THE SAME FOOTWORK, TIMNG AND MOVES NOW AS I DID BACK THEN. There is no difference in the count or better yet – body weight changes now, than it was back then. To promote otherwise is false and misleading and demonstrates a true lack of understanding of the dance and its evolution.

David Wrote:
Derek made the point that it is one’s athleticism that allows them to dance fast. Diane agreed - “David’s a Triathlete”. Folks - none of my girls are triathletes - or anywhere near the great shape Derek is in (Derek looks 32 at most). Perhaps everyone should be in that kinda shape.

Derek made the point that it is one’s athleticism that allows them to dance fast. Diane agreed - “David’s a Triathlete”. Folks - none of my girls are triathletes - or anywhere near the great shape Derek is in (Derek looks 32 at most). Perhaps everyone should be in that kinda shape. But Sling doesn’t REQUIRE what NY style does at 128 – 132 BPM. There are Lindy dancers out there who are older than me dancing at 160 BPM - but their dance is DESIGNED to do it. You don’t have to be in great shape to dance sling or Lindy fast. You do for NY styled”

Thanks for the compliment David. I appreciate it. But you miss the point. I’m NOT a tri-athlete nor would I even consider doing one – so hats of to you there. But I know how to move and distribute my body weight and I have a pretty good understanding of body mechanics. One can be athletic and still not to be able to sustain or execute the changes in weight needed to dance on time and on rhythm with the music. Look at all of the world class athletes from “Dancing with the Stars” that say dancing is the hardest thing they have ever done. Or even the great skilled ballet, jazz and hip-hop dancers from “So You Think…” They all state that partnership dancing is the hardest thing they have ever done dance wise. I don’t think anyone would doubt the type of excellent shape they are in.

David Wrote:
“You no doubt saw what happened to other Pros classes teaching when we were scheduled. 1 quick email to Diane and she will tell you that that is what we get EVERY Time she has us – no matter what we’re teaching or who my partner is.”

With all due respect I think you’re flattering yourself a little too much – I for one attended your class at the invitation of Diane Nardone and to see and hear first hand what statements you would be making as you are known for making some outlandish statements to support your views. I got there as you were showing the video and you did not disappoint. Making the statement, “notice there are no Diva walks or grapevines being done.”, implying that the music was to fast to implement such moves. To which I had to correct you. (see my previous post). Did you ever just think that the turn out (which for the record was about half the size of Donna DeSimone’s) was because it was the only work shop that Diane really did? That people came because of Diane? The workshop was dancing Hustle at various BPM. Not a knock on NY Style” Hustle. Once again, for the record, style is different from timing. (By the way when Diane and I gave a workshop together we had over 100 people and could barely fit everyone in the grand ballroom).

David wrote:
“Derek spoke of a workshop he gave to rave reviews for kids in NY I assume. Actually, I’d love to take one of Derek’s workshops myself. But Derek - here’s the point of departure between us: Yes - kids love a flashy expert hustle teacher like you doing NY styled Hustle – but would they prefer that if they had Katie and I in the next room teaching a competing class in Sling at 128-132 BPM and current music? “
With all due respect – no they wouldn’t. The proof: some of your students approached me after your class and asked me for my phone # and email address so they could contact me for lessons. No brag, just fact.

“NY style has survived BECAUSE people have no other choice. You can’t buy a class in any other style of hustle at any major event because promoters stop it “at the door”. I have competed with 4 different 20 (aged) something partners since March - and I am no where NEAR the dancer you/Brian/Billy & Keith are. There must be something I am doing that always seems to have me in their radar. They “prefer” sling, when they have a choice.”

I don’t know if you recall, but the first time I ever saw or heard of you and this nonsense argument of yours was some 8 years ago at Diane’s event in Fort Lauderdale. It was my first time out in almost 20 years and Diane thought enough to invite me to judge the pro open.. You were trying to sell this same argument back then. I thought it was foolish then and I think its foolish now. Any radar you think you are on is only because no one wants to punish your students for the lack of proper dance training they are getting when it comes to Hustle. If what you’re are saying is so, then once young kids are presented with your “hustle” they would gravitate to it, embrace it, become proficient executioners of it, spread it among their ranks and popularize it! Why hasn’t that happened? You would not need dance conventions for that to happen. Tell me what clubs the 20 something’s are frequenting because they have to go and dance like they’re on crack?

Let me educate you on something. In the salsa clubs for example, there are young party goers who really don’t understand “partner’ dancing. But they get out there and they spin each other like crazy. They snap and jerk each other and rapid fire their spins. No foot work, real timing or methodology to their dance. They “think” they are doing salsa and they want the music played really, really fast. But a funny thing happens when they are introduced to the “art” of the dance. They go “wow! Can you show me that’? You constantly hear “I can dance but I really haven’t been shown how to do it right, like the way you do it. Can you show me?”. Sometimes people don’t know what they don’t know.

I don’t want to take anything from your student. I sure she is a very nice and lovely person. But for the record it’s not hard to take first place in a showcase when you are the only contestant as was the case for you showcase. As far as novice is concerned, she showed a lot of personality on the floor, she smiled and “sold” it. It wasn’t because of the dance ability. Although she has the talent and contrary to what you might think, she was above the norm from an innate talent perspective, her technique unfortunately was less than to be desired. But then again at the beginner and novice levels we really aren’t looking much at the technique and personality does go a long way. I believe you do her, yourself, your students and the overall dance community a disservice by peddling something that really doesn’t bring out the best in your students or the dance. You can call it whatever you want, by your own admission it’s not “pretty” and I’m sorry to say, quite frankly it’s rather sloppy. But no matter what you want to call it, it’s not Hustle.

I’m not in the business of putting people down. Anyone who knows anything about me knows it is not my style or how I live my life. I have better things to do with my time than to write a long winded thesis on this dance called Hustle and I won’t be doing this again. But you have really taken this too far and your constant attacks, implied insults and selfish self promotion - really don’t provide anything constructive to the Hustle or the overall dance community. So here is the answer to your question. If you really want to see if you are correct about the proficiency of you, your students and whatever it is you do; and by your own admission what you do is “easy” to pick up, put your student in the advance category against other advance students dancing at your 126bpm and doing what you do. Let’s see where they end up. According to you this should be a blow-out for you and your student since “traditional” hustle students would not be able to compete and they would break down and that bpm. Once and for all show the superiority of whatever it is you do.

I don’t know you as a person David, you’re probably a nice guy – I’m sure you are. But I really believe your post and long winded arguments are more about your own self promotion than they are about support for the dance. You are obviously intelligent but I believe misguided. I can only judge you by your words and actions. What I’ve seen and heard with my own eyes. I predict that if your “hustle” were to prevail, which it won’t, Hustle will never ever get the respect it deserves as a true dance form and would wither and die. There are things happening to expose this dance to the youth and they are working. It was my desire to help and promote this dance that brought me out of retirement and I will work with anyone in a positive way to do that. I know what people who are passionate and dedicated to the long term health of this dance are doing to insure its long term success. Things on a major level that you don’t’ have a clue about because you are stuck in your make believe Hustle world of fiction.

The NY Hustle Congress is in 2 weeks I will be there. It will be interesting to see if you will attend.

Keep dancing,

Derrick Allen

3 The Three Ginas { 08.14.08 at 8:50 am }

Amen Derrick !

4 Derrick Allen { 08.15.08 at 4:47 pm }

This will be my LAST attempt to try and educate you.

David Wrote: ”Worst yet - Many proponents of NY styled hustle (Pros and Promoters) use their influence to restrict all the comps, championship awards, workshops and other perks to people who only teach “THEIR” stuff - then they accuse others of being frustrated”

No one has restricted anything. However there are standards that are trying to be upheld in order to elevated the dance.

David Wrote: I for one AM frustrated, that I even have to fight for
fairness for me and my girls. I have no intension of being a
revolutionary - or a hustle messiah, rather, just seeking “fairness”.
That means not having to endure competitive rounds held to just 110 BPM to favor THEIR style. Or being over shouted at a workshop targeted to present another choice. I don’t want my dancing, intelligence and credibility assailed because I want fairness for myself, the girls and anyone else who DOES want other choices than THEIRS.

Then you contradict yourself, I believe you stated in a previous
post.
=========
1.. Get rid of the big anchor on &1
2. Get rid of the grapevines
3. get rid of the NY walk
4. Practice and train students to dance at 128-132 BPM in 15 minutes
of each lesson
5. And here’s the big one - My Girls can turn. Any they can turn like hell. We work at it very hard - this is nearly totally lost in NY
styled tradition - and ever forbidden in Billy Fajaro’s NY styled
syllabus on the IHDA website - why??????S
======
You have went from advocating a new count – to not caring what count is being used. To stating that what you are doing is new, then not new, then old trying to be new again. That traditional Hustle can’t compete and is a turn off to the younger generation, (totally ignoring my previous post pointing to yourng and up and coming stars like Raul and Serigia, and the Shays,or Wajih & Wendy for example)….to now just playing the music faster because you can’t compete at the slower tempos and trust me you won’t be able to compete at the faster tempos
either. As for the turns – there is a new syllabus being introduced shortly that, at the advance level, has turns you will probably never be able to do.

David wrote: People seem to miss the point that young people want a dance that serves their purpose. One that works in their clubs, to THEIR music, at their speeds and with their peers. Nobody in hustle today believes that NY styled hustle meets that mission (accept people selling lessons in NY styled Hustle). We’ve given them a good ten years at the helm, and we have the oldest following in dancing.

Evidently you have failed to do anything that energizes the youth as well. We all agree that there is an urgent need to attract a new generation of dancers. It’s one of the reasons I returned to dance. As I have mentioned in a previous post – we are bringing more and more young adults into the hustle everyday – on an international level to boot. (Please reference my previous answer). Of course you wouldn’t know that because you’re stuck in your own Bizarro world of dance fiction.

David wrote:The latest deception they are forwarding is that I am
offering something new - when I have video to prove that I am just re-offering something Old - and that nearly everyone outside of NY danced as I do till hustle USA altered the competitive standard.

Sorry but only in your world did everyone “danced as I do” - read…”dance as you do”. Maybe that is why the youth haven’t been interested in the dance. I can tell you for a fact, that is not the case when they have been introduced to the dance by people who know what they are doing. Hence the very positive tuenout and response to the 600 kids at the NYS HS Theater Conference - that you totally ignore from a previous post to you.

David wrote: Best bet - allow people the opportunity to return to the dance as it was when it filled the clubs. [1979] And rather than listening to the discrediting voices of NY styled “salesmen” - let people chose what dance version serves them the best.

Matter of fact, 1979 was a very good year for me in the competitive dance circuit. Both Playboy and Cherries occured that year. Since I was there in 70’s and 80’s and you weren’t, I
think you make my point. The dance that I, Billy, Keith Gusonni, Diane Nardone, Lisa Nunziella, Maria Torres, Tony Pace, Artie Philips, The Gallaghers, the Prices from Ohio, Mark James, Donna Boyle and many others do today for instance, is the same exact dance that I did doing the period you are stating you want to return to. Thanks for making my case.

David wrote: Again for Derek:

ARE YOU WILLING TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO HAVE A CHOICE TO DO OTHER STYLES OF HUSTLE OTHE$R THAN NY STYLE?

Again this will be my very last attempt to educate you:

There are many different styles that already exist in Hustle. Brian Gallager has a different look than Artie Philips – I have different look than Artie or Brian. Artie has a lot of funkie type of moves that play with the music. I’m known more for some of my traveling moves, fluidity, etc. Billy is powerful, precise and majestic. These are different “styles” or looks within the Hustle. They are DIFFERENT” not better or worse - just different. And they can all be done and have been done to fast upbeat tempos. But they all share the same basic step. They are taught within the “&1,2,3” rhythm that you seem to detest so much and you claim is inferior and CANNOT be done to faster up-tempo music. This is the basic premise of your position. Your premise is wrong and my problem with it is how you have been divisive, demagogic and demeaning on the subject . So yes, I am happy to have choices. But there has to be some type of structure, and adherence to the basic count. This count is not “NY style”. It is the universal accepted standard for how the dance has evolved. It is the count that we did in the mid to late 70’s, the 80’, the 90’s and it is the count/rhythm that is being executed now. The styling question is matter of interpretation of the music. The speed question is addressed by playing faster music. As I mentioned once before - since I can Hustle to a traditional WCS song – does that mean I’m doing WCS? The answer is no
– because I am not capturing the look, feeling, rhythm and/or character of the dance. The same is true of Hustle. It has a basic look, feel, character and rhythm. Are you willing to acknowledge that your so called “12&3” makes no sense as “something new” or even worse, – what we were doing
back in the day? (Which of course we weren’t). If you are willing to acknowledge that point, that the count of “&123” was the rhythm and foot execution that was done back then, you can try to see if you can introduce whatever it is you do as some new “style” that has form function and technique. Otherwise – keep doing whatever it that you are doing – just don’t try to sell it as Hustle.

Keep dancing,

Derrick

5 Beth Lozano { 08.15.08 at 8:44 pm }

Great, Great, GREAT post Derrick - finally someone put that Flynn character in his place - he doesn’t have a clue and I’m tired too of his negative posts. Besides he’s an aweful dancer.

BTW - my kids both want to learn hustle after seeing your Last Dance - video!

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